Thursday, March 03, 2005

In the Early Morning Rain

Getting ready to go to track. Just wanted to say that temporarily removing my S.E. brother was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. Just kidding, but it definitely wasn't as satisying as I thought it was going to be. Probably guilt for having told everyone multiple times to post whatever the heck they wanted. I guess this makes me a liar. Hmm. But I was getting complaints from our readership, and we needed a temporary cooldown. And he wasn't gonna go John Chaney (the bball coach at Temple) and suspend himself. Okay, this is making me late. so I'll end with a trite cliche. Tough Love.

29 comments:

Xan said...

So I am being punished for using the Blog as it was originally intended?

I can't post because some idiot, starts posting and sets me up?

I am banned for being the only one that acctually cares and tries to make this blog better then it is now?

I have been personally attacked because people don't like my writing, if you don't like it don't read it! I have recieved encouragement from Ben every time I post. He always said, "good Psot Alex," or "Keep going." But now you all kick me off because I am trying to show and tell my feelings and emotions.

How do you justify your actions?

I work and perhaps put in the most time on this blog and I am eliminated for attempting to entertain you?

I was under the impression that the creative writing post was perhaps one of the longest chains so far and I only got comliments on my chronicles of the 1980 Volvo. So why the sudden shift in attitude?

I wonder how you lay in bed at nights knowing what you have done?

John and Karolyn said...

Dude, this is a new low for communication. Walk over and talk to me or something...Doug just pointed at you. Oh well, I'll respond in the manner in which you initiated the discussion.

As owner/founder of the blog, Ben can ban any contributor he desires to. As an Administrator, I will ban people to uphold the greater good of the blog when they blatantly and obviously cause harm to the blog. Ben warned you your onslaught of posts with little/no substance would not be tolerated. Multiple readers complained that your writing had been sub-par and did not deserve to be showcased on this fine establishment of higher-level writing. However, this alone would not have motivated me to remove you as a contributor. If you recall, back when PinkHibiscus started I openly stated my personal hatred for self-promotion, particularly of promotion of blogs not associated with mmmgravy. You attempt to draw off our readership, whatever readership that might be, by posting links to your own writings without explaining the substance. Up until this morning, there was no reference to "hoverboots" as a cast/crew blog and it was not promoted as such. I consider this a base attempt to recover your posting status. I do not condone any personal attacks over writing style, but they do indicate strong feelings in the community that your writing is unacceptable. People do can indeed "choose" what to read and not on this blog. However, there is no statement anywhere that contributing membership will be offered freely. While that has been this blog's recent policy, this status has always been contingent upon intelligent and meaningful posts, or at least a refrain from posts that detract from the readability of the blog. You are not "trying to show and tell your feelings and emotions". If you so desire, start a person blog on "feelings and emotions" and distribute the link to people you think would be interested in person, email, via aim, or though any means you find availible. However, I will not allow such self-promotion on this blog. You were warned not to self-link. As far as your post was concerned, it was a blatant attempt to promote a non-gravy affiliated blog without so much as properly informing the reading public asto the nature of said blog.

If you want to write creatively, I encourage that. Please save your creative writings for such time as you are reinstated as a contributor. If you wish, I encourage you to schedule a time to talk with me. Or you can talk to Ben, as I have always and will always bow to his wishes as far as this blog is concerned. However, until/unless such time as Ben passes down a judgement contradicting myself, I shall continue operating in the same manner I have been

Shakeer said...

I've always been of the opinion that everyone everywhere deserves their own blog.

Sean said...

hahahhaaah easy boys. Were all on the same team.

Shakeer said...

Yeah honestly, this is just the sort of behavior that got poor Piggy's glasses broken.

Dave said...

you know whats sad? almost nobody in my English class would get that refrence... I asked the other day who had read lord of the flies because the imagry in MacBeth is almost identical (scoring brownie points with Fr. Connell - hell yes bullshit!) and no one had... it made me sad.

Ken said...

Alex, look, you were kinda overposting. Some of them were kinda pointless. Many of them would have done better on a personal blog. I think people want more variety and feel like you're commandeering the blog and steering it in a direction they don't really like.

But John, we both know Alex isn't gone just because he posted about another blog. If you honestly thought "hoverboots" would "draw off our readership", I'm not sure I'd trust you with an admin slot. So be honest. By the way, I thought it was a little annoying too, especially since it wasn't explained. But it wasn't sinister or evil, and if it deserved more than some rolled eyes, it deserved a warning.

As for the communication, Alex picked a public forum because he wasn't just talking to you. There are twenty-something names on the sidebar and he was talking to them (us), too.

Also, no one ever said Ben doesn't have the right to ban someone. Of course he does--this is his baby. The real question is, are you being a decent person, or an asshole? And that question is contingent upon this one: how much warning did Alex have? Did you really kick him off without telling him about it (so that he would be notified electronically), and then complain that he was bringing communication to a "new low" by using electronic communication to complain about it?

By the way, maybe we should lighten up a little bit? John, I challenge you to say this line: "It was a blatant attempt to promote a non-gravy affiliated blog" without feeling a liiiiittle too serious.

Shakeer, harumph.

Shinekaze said...

Ken:
I do agree that Alex should have been given a bit more warning about his booting especially face to face, not just electronic, and I do agree that Alex is not going to steal any readership. It just won't happen, due to the ease of checking both sites, and the fact that this site is better established. However I do also feel that Alex took his response to the boot a bit overboard. It is Ben's brain-child, like you said, and ergo, Ben has all rights to do what he wants with it, even if we don't agree. That doesn't mean that I think it is healthy for the blog for that to happen, but it is his right.
Also I don't think that John was refering to Alex having brought communication to "a new low". In the context of the post it would seem that Alex, unaware that John was in the library, posted his initial response. Doug than noticed, and pointed out where Alex was, adn John made a new post. It sounds like John assumed that Alex was aware of his (john's) presence in the library, and was just snubbing him or was too pissed to talk face to face. Also John booted him for not providing any info as to the basis of the blog that Alex started. Later it was revealed to be a Dead Man Cast and Crew Blog.

Shakeer:
I agree this is the type of thing that wound up breaking piggy's glasses.

Dave:
Damn Straight it is a good book. although i have always gotten a bit pissed at the one kid who started the new tribe, just becuase he didnt really get his way and didnt get chosen as the leader. i was really pissed that common sense didnt apply to a bunch of military trained students.

John:
I would lighten up a bit. No offense meant but it isnt like Alex is going to steal any readers ship. His new blog would have died as soon as Dead Man was done, simply becuase the cast and crew always tends to break up to an extent. You could have asked for clairification rater than just outright, right off the bat booting him.

John and Karolyn said...

Uhm...you'd be surprised what I can say seriously. I have a pet peeve with people promoting blogs on other blogs...I've mentioned it many times.

Perhaps I should clarify aswell...Ben beat me to kicking Alex. I edited that post intending to kick him only to find it had already been done.

And yeah, Ben and I have warned him numerous times.

As for communication...Alex posted that comment like 15 feet away from me. Literally. I don't mind him commenting here, I just thought it was sad he didn't say a word to me about it before this. The public forum is most appropriate for the meat of this discussion, however, as it affects the public.

No Dave, I've never read Lord of the Flys...or at least, I don't remember it.

And Ken...Ben had other reason, I presume, but I *did* ban Alex because of promoting another blog after I warned him once about it. Maybe this sounds stupid to y'all, but I really hate to see this blog turned into a means of promoting personal blogs. Community endevors are fine (IE, if Alex had mentioned he was forming a Dead Man blog BEFORE he was booted, I would have allowed it without complaint) but personal things are not. You want a personal blog, by all means, go get one, just don't promote it here. You want us to link, talk to us about it first and we'll see...so far, everyone who's wanted a link has gotten one. And I'll admit I was wrong to not want to link to Hibiscus back in the day...but I view this as a different case entirely.

Feel free to rule this descion as crossing the line over to "assholeish" (to paraphrase your own words). The day Ben feels I exceeded my authority I shall promptly resign as an administrator. Otherwise, I feel my actions were fully justified and Alex had sufficent warning.

I will point out, however...In case it hasn't carried though, I am very emotionally detached from this issue. I am not mad at Alex nor do I consider this to seriously effect our relationship (though he apparently feels otherwise). I am acting to stop what I see as annoying spam on the blog I have come to check frequently.

That is all.

-JB

Shinekaze said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Xan said...

OF course I was pissed off. How would you feel if you had been a long-term member and a regular poster then kickod off with no warning with no explination?

And Yes I had NO WARNING, that is a compolete lie John and you know it. niether verbal nor electronic, If you had a problem with me then say something of even post something, I don't care how, but at least tell me what is going on. To be kicked off of one of my favorite hobies for no real reason is not right of you.

AS for my own actions, I don't think I am overreaciting at all, yes it is a small problem but the principle is too outstanding. I don't buy that "advertising" thing, mabey you guys thought you were clear with that but I must have missed that memo. You have links to other blogs on Gravy, and I have never heard any complaints about me linking up my blog through posts. This was the first time I had heard anything of the sort. Don't try to deny it.

As for the multiple complaints about my posts, its their problem if they don't want to post anymore. Hey if they don't like them then come up with something better. Thats not a challenge, but rather a statement, if you don't like what you see then write something you like and don't complain about it.

One of the main points that I tried to get across on both my blog and this one is that I want feedback, I don't care if it's negative, acctually I would prefur it to be negative, then I can learn what is well liked and grow from that. But to go behind my back and not tell me, or post it, and then get me kicked off, that is not friendly at all, and I would be ashamed if I was acctually friends with anyone who did that.

As for bring it up here instead of talking to John, well that I think is the simplist. It was not just John that was behind this, I don't know who was involved, but I felt that everyone should at least know what I didn't. I would like to find out the truth just as much as anyone else.

"To be apolitical in the face of these injustices is to uphold the statis quo, A very political possition to take. To not activly fight injustice is to activly condone it."
-Sister Neal, Dead Man Walking

Cynda said...

ha, everyone who wanted a link on this blog got one? ok, whatever, but seriously lighten up it is just a blog, we are just in high school oh and how about the fact that we're all supposed to be friends...geez guys, c'mon.

Adrianna said...

Do I have to bring back Switzerland? Because I can bring back Switzerland.

Anonymous said...

lets not make this into the next Pink Hibiscus trajedy.

Pat said...

Alex, only you would spell tragedy wrong.

John and Karolyn said...

Pink Hibiscus tragedy...heh. I can promise I will never delete this blog. Ever.
And I truely doubt ben would.

As for warning you...Alex man, I told you like four times that I didn't want you posting links to blogs. I admit, that was prolly a while ago (back when you linked to Omega) but I did warn you. Just as I warned Cynda/Maggie with PH. Etc.

As for everyone getting a link...I said we'd consider it. Note that PH got a link, and I admit I was wrong in that case. Had PH been just Maggie, or even just Maggie/Cynda, it would not have warrented a link. However, seeing as how it was a community effort and that community was tied rather strongly to gravy's, that link was warrented.

Alex, I sincerely apologize if you did not feel warned in this matter. I strongly felt/feel I warned you (and at least once, everyone else) *not* to post links to personal blogs. Particularly posts who's whole purpose was to promote another blog.

As for PH being a tragedy...I never agreed with that decision nor felt it was neccessary...I consider the tragedy to be that Maggie felt such drastic measures were neccessary. I'll point out other methods of communication failed rather splendedly...typing my email addy wrong, for example, isn't condusive to communication. ;D *shrug* That's neither here nor there. Alex, as far as I'm concerned, this is only a temporary ban to enforce the policy on spamming the blog and self-linking. I think the message has been adequately conveyed and would suggest you talk to Ben about his reasons for removing you from the authors list...I do not feel comfortable reinstating you without consulting him first as he removed you before I.

-JB

Ken said...

Don't bring back Switzerland.

Ben said...

Yeah, Alex and I resolved this at Mass Friday morning. That's why he wrote in the past tense. Everything is chill, my homies.

Xan said...

We resolved this at mass? News to me.

I still do not understand why I was kicked off. John has made his point clear, although it is full of flaws and inconsistancies. But I am willing to forgive his stubborness and lack of self-control. However it has come to my attention that it was Ben that had the ultimate say in who was to die and who was to live. What I don't understand is why HE kicked me off, it would make sense if it was John (althought that would have been very mean of him). And why I was chosen NOW and ultimately WHY, because I have a hard time beliving that Ben would kick me off for posting too much, because he liked the majority of them.

A Quote from John:
"Had PH been just Maggie, or even just Maggie/Cynda, it would not have warrented a link. However, seeing as how it was a community effort and that community was tied rather strongly to gravy's, that link was warrented."

Here is the Chance to redeem yourself John. Hoverboots has 8+ contributors and many more have agreed to sign up, by your definition this is a community Blog, that warents a link. Here is your chance to show God and all that follow him that yu live up to your word and prove that you are not a hypocriticle self-motivated tool.

Ben said...

Dude, I am in a Catch 22 between not wanting to dignify that with a response but also wanting to make the point that you yourself ceded at Mass. I never said I liked many of the posts here on Gravy. I told you how I loked the effort you put into Omega and liked the posts there. I in fact hated several of the posts here. Oh, and neither John nor I need to apologize for anything. I will leave the hoverboots decision up to him.

Xan said...

What point?

Xan said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Xan said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Xan said...

New Proof of my statements.
HA John I've got you!

I knew that John's statements about warning me were fictional and I had to have proof, well here I have it:
http://likeapuma.blogspot.com/2004/09/blog-wars.html#comments

This is the link to one of my very first posts on the OMEGA DIRECTIVE when it was still young and called "the insiders looking out" In one of the posts John states,"Regardless, I applaud your effort to begin a spinoff blog. Best of luck."

Proof that he is lieing to you all about his real intent behind my removal.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

And you have yet to respond to my last post concerning you John. And Ben you need to take more of a stance on your own Blog either you hate me or you don't now wich one is it?

Xan said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Xan said...

Lets start from the Beggining:
1)Ben Kicks me off

2)I hear about the event at lunch for the first time from Joe V.

3)I go to the library to find out what the hell was going on.

4) I find that John got pissed because I created a DMW Blog (that already had cast members on it at the time)

5) tells me I had brought communication to a new low, when he himself is doing the same thing and started it by not telling me first in person that he had a problem with my posting.

6)John Insults my writing (something very close to me that defines me)

7)He says he has an open hatred for other blogs (is that someone we want as an Admin.?)

8) Claims that I will steal "readership" (yeah right, never my intention, never possible, too many people admire this Blog)
9)Claims that He knows more about my thoughts and emotions then I do.

10) Says that Gravy does not support other blogs, yet has multiple links to other ones.

11) contridicts himself by saying everyone who wants a link gets one, (Well I have been asking for a link to Omega, with no luck for months)

12) Contridicts himself again when he claims only community blogs get links (then does not fullfil this statement, even though Hoverboots is a community blog with very close ties to Gravy [some of the same people are on it for god's sake])

13)After accepting blaim then facing critisism he hides behind Ben saying that Ben was the one not him (perhaps truthful but cowardess nonetheless)

14) Accepts that hoverboots is a community blog but continues his persicution

15)Claims he warned me, although he did nothing of the sort

16) Blaims the Pink Hibiscus tragedy on Maggie (not her fault)

17)Says that he warned me back when Omega was started but evidence says otherwise, in fact he encouraged the new blog.

The bottom line is that John has become a tyrant, much like Macbeth, he is afraid of those that do not even pose threats, yet he picks them off before they have a chance to present their case, or change. I know I sound perhaps a little cruel, however these facts must be revealed. Is this the kind of person we want running our Blog? Don't be afraid to speak out, because although John might kick you off too you will get back on as soon as Ben sees that John is corrupt.

Don't take it personally John, God knows I love you, but your actions sometimes are a little too blunt. Just don't go out and start kicking off innocent women and children.

Ben said...

Dude, why were you failing your Spanish class again? Lack of study time? This is kind of sad. I chose to boot you because I was getting tired of the posts and was getting complaints from our readers (believe it or not there are people who read this who are not contributors.) Whether or not this was a good decision, I don't know. I've made amends and sent you a new invite about three days ago, so I don't know what will satisfy you. I'll talk to John about a link, but dude, this is kind of pathetic. I guess I didn't imagine you would take it in such a serious fashion. Sorry.

Xan said...

ORIGINALLY POSTED MARCH 10TH 2004

Pathetic? Now you are personally attacking me? How dare you insult me and bring up Spanish! Who gives you the right to judge my academic ability? It has nothing to do with the current topic at all, and you should feel ashamed at yourself. I thought better of you Ben. Obviously it was a bad decision or none of this conflict would have happened.
What kinds of complaints? I can take them.
STOP CRYING TO BEN AND COME AND TALK TO ME YOURSELF!

I don't want to be part of a Blog that cannot take responsibility for it's own actions. All good (and some bad) are now the property of Hoverboots.

All that I have wanted from the very begining is a sincere apology and a statment of repentance. But instead I got insult upon insult. Yes perhaps you thought that I suck and everything, but I am still a human being and to be worked around, personally attacked, rejected, accused, made fun of, hurt, brushed off, and then disposed of really destroys my self esteem. I am NOT JOKING here, you did a horrible thing to me and I don't think I can ever forgive you (all of you) especially if you continue to degrade me.

The worst thing is that no one wants to face me. That hurts me even more. No one wants to talk and just sort everything else, no one wants to tell me the truth instead you insult me. Here is an Idea; instead of hiding and being a coward, face up and be respectful, you can be negative and respectful and the same time.

Xan said...

Does anyone even read this anymore?

Sense I left there seems to have been a decrease in the number of posts. I wonder if your readership has gone down too. At least I brought some diversity to gravy. now all you have is 5 posts per week, when it used to be three times that amount, how sad.