Why I believe The Star Trek Universe is more "realistic" (if you could say such a thing) then the Star Wars Universe.
1) Space travel
yes ST (star trek) ships are capable of faster then light travel, a fact that has been proven by science that is impossible. However it was a fact that the world was fact, it was a fact that Earth was the center of the universe, It was a fact that Earth was the only planet to sustain life. Well guess what, all those have been proven false. ST also does not say that the ships are traveling at a huge velocity, rather they use a very common theme in Sci-fi, and that is bending space. The warp core has the ability to bend space to travel from one point to the other. And being loyal to the concept of a limit on speed there is a top speed that you can reach Warp 9.9 Warp 10 is impossible to obtain. Now if you watch TOS (the original series) you will notice that Kirk throws around different speeds like warp 13 and such, this is not a continuity error, the scale on which to determine warp speed changed to match the meteric system, because warp drive was developed by an american using the English system, and it stuck for a while.
2) Ship design
the main thought process behind the ST design for ships is symetry, to have an incongruent ship that has all these bulges and points would be inefficent. It would not beable to make a sustanable warp field. SW has insemetrical designs (the Mellinium Falcon for example) which by the laws of physics would be incapable of withstanding the speeds at which they claim to go. And the X-wing for example, why would a ship need wings in space? For atmouspheric flight perhaps, but in space? There would be no reason for wings on a starship, and contrary to belief, ST ships only have wings on some of the shuttles, and even then they are saftey features, thrusters take most purpose away, and no large starships have wings, the things on the back are not wings they are warp nacelles, they take the bussards collected in space and convert them into a usable energy source.
3) Exsistance of humans
As most of you know the begining of every SW film it says, "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away..." Well I don't want to but your bubble but a long time ago humans did not have space travel, nor did they live in a galaxy far far away. Now many people claim that the people of SW are not human, rather they are Correlian, a lame excuse for a continuity error. ST however is set in the future where technological advancement may bring this as a logical future, with a real time line. Humans are humans. Also in SW you will notice that the vast majority in the senate chamber, pods appear to be human, now I find it hard to believe that of so many planets so few alien races are represented, or that humans colonized all so many planets and have become the dominant species in the universe. Where do you see all the aliens? never in the empire, all are in the rebelion, and even then you look at the shots they are mostly human. Yes I will admit the ST series' that have been produced are mainly based on human starships, but you must realize that Starfleet is an Earth based operation. If you know anything about Spock you will know that he faced huge critisim from Vulcans for joining starfleet, because he was breaking from tradition and vulcans saw starfleet as a human faction.
4) Weapons
Now Star Trek faces huge criticism from oponents that say the weapons are completely made up and never possible, I propose the opposite. One of the most known instruments in the ST universe is the phaser. The phaser is a weapon that emits a concentrated beem of energy to temporarly paralize (or sometimes kill) the victum. This is not far from our reality now. A new device was recently invented called a tetenizer (sp) it uses a laser beem to conduct a concentrated amount of energy that, upon striking the opponent, causes their muscles and organs to seize up and contract. This cause the person to be temporarly immoble so that restraints can be fasened. Unfortunatly, they are not yet on the market, and they are about the size of a suitcase, but progress is being made. SW uses lasers, a tiny amount of energy shot toward an object that blows it to bits. Perhaps this was "possible" in the 1970's but now we all know that for energy to travel through light there must be a constant beam of light. There is a line in TNG (Tne Next Generation) where Picard is informed that an enemy ship has lasers, his responce is something like, "lasers? Those wont even make a dent in our shields." enough said.
5) Technology
Again critics of star trek say that the technology is impossible, quite the contrary. Take the communicatior badge for example. They now are using the same thing in hospitals with nurses and doctors. The PADD that all orders and communications are on, are a direct decendent of today's Palm Pilots. As for the Phaser, well thats been covered, and the most controversial, the transporter. Could such a thing work? The answer is yes, it has been proven. So far scientists have been able to transport single atomic structures, from one location to another. They are now experimenting with molecules, and have had noteworthy attempts, the technology is not yet there but who can say that it wil never be. As for SW, what do they have that has basis in fact? The lightsaber? Show me the precorsor and I will apologize, but who has seen a beem of energy that ends one meter from its source and is able to slice through anything? Anyone? It is cool to watch on screen, no dispute there, and episode III is looking good, but in reality, not likely.
Now don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars, I just find it a little harder to grasp then Star Trek. So many people say they hat ST, but in all actuallity they don't even know enough to hate. You can not truly hate something unless you know it very well. I am not saying I hate SW, I love it, I am simply saying that Star Trek is better.
9 comments:
Your post is inconsistent. You start off talking only about realism, but then you end with, "I am simply saying that Star Trek is better." For this post to be at all consistent, you must be saying that realism is directly related to quality. I, and most other people will disagree. If realism was equivalent to quality, then the works of Shakespeare, Orwell, Homer, Chaucer, and Milton would not be considered literature. Fairies, talking pigs, mythical creatures, battling angels, etc. are much less realistic then a futuristic sword, which main purpose is to re-tell a samurai story in a futuristic and much more entertaining fashion. One thing about Star Wars, is that it is much closer to being "literature" than Star Trek is. Princeton offers the definition of "creative writing of recognized artistic value." Star Trek has very little artistic value. There is no development of characters, or explorations of theme that add to the experience of the viewer. Star Trek is the composition of many "adventures" that simply entertain, and do not teach the viewer anything or lets him explore humanity. I am in no way saying that Star Wars is literature, especially considering that it too has entertainment as its primary goal, but it is still closer than Star Trek.
PS: I hat ST
Star Trek sucks. Star Wars is way better.
You ignored the laws of physics and the fact that space is a vacuum several times. After "ship design" I stopped reading but I assume the rest was chock full of errors too.
I think this type of post would find way more enthusiastic readers on Hoverboots.
WARNING: This Post is Long and Boring.
This post contains rebuttals/remarks to three people, Alex, Doug, and Ken. Alex should read atleast the part to him if nothing else, same to Doug and Ken. Please read the section adressed to you, even if you don't read anything else.
Alex:
In #1, you say it was a fact that Earth was the only planet to sustain life. That hasn't been a fact for hundreds of years. Scientists have been debating for as long as they have had the telescope. Its only been a "fact" for the religious, who couldn't stand the idea that their God(s) would make life elsewhere. People have even thought the opposite of the "fact" that humans are alone in the solar system. Look at H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds, what about the theories that Venus actually had a super-advanced civilization on it, hidden by its own smog(which turned out to actually be clouds of sulfuric acid)? What about the theories of the canals on Mars? BTW, The speed of light as a limit on attainable speed has never been confirmed, except mathmatically. Hence why it is Einstein's THEORY of Relativity, not Einstein's LAW of Relativity. They haven't proved his theory in experiment. That means it is not a fact, but rather a theorized bit of knowledge.
In #2, the nacelles are not collecting anything, it is the Bussard Ramscoops that collect matter. And its not Bussards that they are collecting, its interstellar hydrogen.
On #3 you talk about the existence of humans being Correlian, and that its only recently, and that its a lame excuse for a continuity error. In reality, this has been around as an explination for quite a while, and its no continuity error. They never claimed that the humans originated on Earth. For all we know, Earth could have been written in in Movie #9, where the last of the Jedi build a colony here on Earth, which is destroyed by the Dark Jedi, leaving the survivors to build a new civilization, devoid of any technology and thus they lose their ability to make technology and the force. Its a movie, there are no continuity errors, there are just bits of the plot-line that they haven't seen fit to tell us yet.
In #4 I'm pretty sure you're wrong on the physics of Lasers. You do not need a constant beam of light to transfer energy. Light is energy, a 1 millisecond burst of light still has energy. Its just that the energy is starting and stopping. A Phaser however, is like a giant railgun. Its job is to fire a hyped up subatomic particle. That is all... its like a conventional gun, just with a lot more energy behind it. At this point the lasers are a more realistic weapon.
In #5 you say that people are saying that the technology is impossible, and you give examples of technology that is present in Star Trek and that is available today. People are not refering to the communicators, hell where do you think the idea for the cell phone came from? People are not refering to the PADDs, where do you think the idea for a PDA came from? These things had their roots back in TOS. Many inventors watched shows like Star Trek, and dreamt about how they could make that stuff possible. The technology that people are refering to as impossible is the technologies like the transporter, faster than light travel, and holograms. These things, with our current level of technological knowledge and the laws of physics as we know them now, are effectively impossible. Its the next generations of dreamers who may find ways to build upon what we know now, who knows who the next Newton, Einstein, or Euler will be?
Doug:
[quote]Star Trek has very little artistic value. There is no development of characters, or explorations of theme that add to the experience of the viewer. Star Trek is the composition of many "adventures" that simply entertain, and do not teach the viewer anything or lets him explore humanity.[/quote]
I have to actually disagree, as a fan of both I know the shows and movies well. In the TOS(The Original Series) series and even in many TNG(The Next Generation) episodes there were morals behind the story-lines. Some even included political messages. Believe me, I know, I was lame(in the sense that I wrote a paper on it, not lame as in the shows sucked) enough to do a history paper on the topic freshman year. There also is a good deal of character development, but you have to watch more than one or two episodes to pick up on it. Otherwise, Picard, Data, Seven of Nine, everyone, would act different in each episode than they did in the one before. The characters had a very defined development, and it was built upon, eg. Picard being assimilated into the Borg collective, the writers took that, made him learn from his experiences and changed the way he acted based on it. Kirk, he as many people know, was a womanizer, this played into his character in how he coerced people into doing what he wanted or later on how he views life, death, etc. You see, just becuase the character development is broken up over years(sometimes decades ie Kirk) it doesnt mean that its not there. Star Wars has the benefit of being much more continuous in the fact that it was only designed to be 9 movies, only 6 of which have been made, and only 3 of those willingly on the part of Mr. Lucas. Star Wars also benefitted from the fact that there were only a couple of writers and editors. Star Trek, which has spanned hundreds of episodes, has had more writers than hairs on my head. Okay, so thats an exaggeration, deal with it. It has still had hundreds of writers over its run. I think that you have to commend the guys who write and produce the shows for keeping the characters developing in the right directions.
PS. Cole's original post does not in any way equate realism with quality. He simply states that in his opinion, that Star Trek is the better of the two genres. Alex just FEELS that Star Trek is better. He probably based that choice on a hope that in the future something like this is possible, and therefore the realism offers more hope that it could actually happen.
PPS: Shakespeare sucks major ass.
Ken:
He did ignore the laws of physics, its true, but he was making some statements off of supposed technology of the 24th century. If you had told man 300 years ago that humans could fly, what kind of reaction would you get? You would probably be locked away in Bedlam. I think you have to keep in mind, A) its just a show, and B) the show is based on the future, where any number of unknown technological advances may be made. Also, Alex's whole, disregarding "the fact that space is a vacuum several times", is based, again, on the show(and its futuristic physics) and the fact that space isn't a perfect vacuum. Spacial dust, nebulai, gravity distortions, etc can all have an effect on how a vehicle moves through space, just like it would an airplane in Earth's atmosphere, thereby Alex is arguing that a ship with a symetrical, aerodynamic hull would do better in space travel, and in a way he is right, becuase at high speeds dust does build up around the front of a ship, much like a snowplow in a snow-covered street. The smooth, symetrical hull would allow the ship to slice through the bow-shock easier, allowing it to keep more energy.
this is what Anonymous said...
DUDE ITS LIKE TOTALLY STAR WARS
star trek bites major ass. like, major ass. star wars has hot chicks and lasers and bombs, and dont get me started on how laaaaame star trek ships are
10:44 PM
my response:
Xan said...
What the hell anonymous that was not even what the post was about.
P.S. SW has what chicks? Leia and that alien lady in the rebelion, R2-D2 mabey. Ever heard of Orion Slave Girls, look it up, or watch this friday's episode, enough said there.
P.P.S. lasers and bombs, what do you think phasers and torpedos are?
P.P.P.S. at least my ship wont run out of battery power, ha!
P.P.P.P.S. sorry everyone for have idiots like him and me comment on the wrong post.
9:06 AM
Like Devon said, everyone read the commnet diressed at you, and Doug read Ken's as well.
Doug
I never said that realism and quality were the same thing, no realism is a factor that plays into quality. Shakespere was writing fantasy (on those that you mentioned), I am talking about Science Fiction. Look at the name -Science- Fiction, it is ment to be scientificly based. Star Wars is not. You could argue that SW is actually fantasy not Sci-fi, and then everything would be okay, but in terms of Science Fiction Star Wars does not live up to the name (But it is fun to watch...as a fantasy).
Devon
The Ramscoops do collect bussards, which feed the warp reactor intermix chamber, yes it also collects space born hydrogen and other elements but even the name specifies bussards, look it up, but I'm pretty sure I'm correct.
Also, that long drawn out story about the jedi losing there powers and becoming human, sounds like a desprite fan's attempt to assure himself that his beliefs are not total bull, whose going to buy that?
Also, yes light is energy but in order to transfer more energy through light, you must have light to do so, its kind of like the chicken and the egg, but more simple.
Also,Did you read my entire thing? I talked both about the transporter and faster then light speeds in there. And yes inventors based many ideas on TOS tech, which goes to prove that these technologies will most likely emerge eventaully, I was hopeing someone would notice that.
Also, I never said that the idea that ET life was never thought, hell I'm reading War of the Worlds right now, and that was in 1898. No the proof that no other life exsisted was scientificly based fact, now we know that Mars contains microscopic lifein it's polar caps. perhaps not inteligent microscopic life, but that is life still, unless your one of those death-mongering abortion promoting freeks that say life isn't life unless it is like me.
Ken
By not reading my entire post, only proves my point that people hate and make fun of the things that they know least about. I challenge both you and Doug to watch the majority of the 1 billion ST episodes and learn the technology and the characters and then tell me that Star Trek sucks, you cannot hate something that you know nothing about. THink about it, which foods do you hate? The ones that don't taste good, and how did you know that they tasted good, you tried it. Why do you try new foods but not Star Trek?
LIVE LONG AND PROSPER
I really shouldn't bother to respond to this... but I will anyway. First off... I'm right, you're wrong. The Bussard Ramscoops are, and I quote, "Named for the twentieth-century physicist and mathematician Robert W. Bussard, the ramscoop emanates directional ionizing radiation and a shaped magnetic field to attract and compress the tenuous gas found within the Milky Way galaxy."(Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual Page 70). The paragraph continues on to explain that the ramscoops are used to ionize the HYDROGEN gas, so that it can be collected by the magnetic fields, and is then converted in to Deuterium. Its just a hydrogen atom with an extra proton (and neutron?). There is no reference to "bussards", therefore me=correct in this manner.
As for my comments on light and energy, I made that comment because in your original post, you said that for there to be a transfer of energy that the beam of light has to be constant, which is far from true. You don't need the beam to stay on to transfer energy, a one millisecond hit will still transfer energy, just not nearly as much as a 10 second burst. Also your chicken and the egg analogy is pure bullshit. You can't have light with out energy. The energy can exist without the light. There is no chicken and the egg scenario here. Also there are other ways to transfer energy... eg heat, radio waves, etc they transfer energy they just won't do energy.
That story I typed out was just me making up an example, on the fly, showing how in a series(yes the movie IS a series) the writers may decide to not tip their hand too early in the story. If they did they wouldn't have any storyline to write into the later movies. Hence that was just an example of how a writer might go about developing a storyline and choosing the information that they choose to reveal to us, the fan base, whcih they will do in good time.
wrong Devon, to quote,
"Bussard collector
From Memory Alpha, the free Star Trek reference.
The Bussard Collector is a device usually attached to the forward end of the warp nacelles that serves to collect bussards,consisting of interstellar hydrogen atoms for fuel replenishment. The device consists of a set of coils which generate a magnetic field. It is also referred to as Bussard ramscoop."
written right here:
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Bussard_collector
Yes it is also named after Robert Bussard, but the particles are also named after him. It is also in one of my Star Trek: Magazines that I own. I'll find it and bring it to school.
yes a kind of energy is light, but phaser verses laser, a steady beam of light offers more power and more flexability for more amounts of power, how much energy can one burst of light hold, not nearly as much as a continuous beem constantly being fed energy.
You guys are nerds.
Your Honor, I move to have this post stricken from the record.
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